Yes, with your usual articulate clarity you expose this fraud and deception for what it is. Oh that world 'leaders' would do the same and actually come together to take action to end the genocide being committed by Netanyahu.
Sadly, it seems that fascist ideology is once more rearing its monstrous head in the Western World and dissemination of its propaganda being even more powerful than that of Goebbels, so encouraging a dangerous, even insane, populism that may well result in yet another World War.
It seems that only South Africa has learned from the horrors of its past and is prepared to stand for respect and dignity of all. The pragmatic hypocrisy of most nations in regard to Israeli crimes is complicity in the inhumanity being perpetrated by a Zionist state, protected, funded and armed by the United States of America which, to its shame, appears to have learned nothing from its own history.
Thank you Roger...the Zionists and Israel’s abuse of the memories of the Holocaust and those who suffered and died, should also be seen as a war crime. Why? Because they are killing the very essence of what they were slaughtered for - their race, freedom and humanity.
Again, you are so right. If I were not witnessing it, I would find it incredible that what is perceived as a Jewish state, is committing crimes most definitely of the same character as those of the National Socialists and that, it seems, many if not a majority of Israeli citizens support Netanyahu's genocidal activity.
I am not surprised that none-Jews do not recognise what has always been a travesty and deception - that Israel is and always has been a Zionist, not a Jewish state. Indeed, when Palestine was partitioned it was a Zionist lobby that influenced the actions of the British government. However, that so many Jews appear also to have accepted this deceit is a tragedy which subverts the legitimate horror at Jewish suffering in Europe during the 1930s and 1940s, as well as the compassion and sympathy felt for those people by non-Jews across the World.
Indeed, at least in my view, it is that sympathy and feeling of good people from diverse religions, populations, nations and backgrounds that is also being perverted and, not least, because it apparently suits politicians, for whatever nefarious or perhaps simply unintelligent reason, to conflate the Zionist and the Jew and hence fund, arm and support Netanyahu and IDF atrocities.
Ironically, the major concern of probably most of the Israeli population is for the return of the hostages taken by Hamas. I say 'ironically' because the Palestinian people have effectively been held hostage ever since the deceitful perfidy of the British who failed to honour agreements with them to gain their assistance in defeating the Ottomans.
There is much more I could write but this is supposed to be a comment. The particular point I wish to make is that as far as I can tell, the average member of populations of western nations has little or no knowledge or awareness of how Israel came about or what has transpired since that time and the original displacement of 750,000 Palestinians when the State of Israel was created.
So, I'll say no more here but for those who are interested or wish to be informed rather than indoctrinated, deceived or misled, what follows are just a few reliable sources of information that reveals the perfidy that led to 7 October 2023 and the excuse it gave for Israel to pursue its long held will to eliminate the Palestinian people.
Before you criticise me, those who would or will - please note that I am *not* anti-semitic and that this conflict is not about religion or Jews, as I have made fairly clear above.
I believe that I understand what prompts your feelings but I do have difficulty in accepting the conclusions which they have caused you to draw.
I haven't seen the poll, know nothing of its methodology or reliability, (though I generally see PEW as reliable), and have no knowledge of Jimmy Dore. Despite that, on the basis of what I've read, I have no real difficulty in believing that those figures are probably correct or close to it. Indeed, as I indicated in my comment, it appalls me that the majority of the Israeli population apparently support the genocidal actions of Netanyahu and his war cabinet.
My difficulty with what you've said comes from two things. The first is the use of language distortion that is suggestive of relationship with or similarity to other times, places and events. Even if those factors are accurate, there is ample adequacy in our language to make those points clearly and directly, rather than with crude and derogatory alterations to vocabulary. - However, that is the lesser of my issues.
The second and more important difficulty I have is with the conflation of Jewish belief with Zionism. Again, this is a point I raised in my comment. There may well be some 'Jews' who are Zionists but as Zionism is an atheistic movement, then those Jews are not true Jews but simply Zionists.
So, no, those statistics do not make you antisemitic because the assumption underlying them is false. It views Zionist attitudes and belief as being a characteristic of those of the Jewish faith, which in my view is untrue. It is also one of the factors which contributes to antisemitism - a state of mind that is divisive, destructive, harmful and unintelligent. It amounts to disinformation which is doing so much damage to society in this era of ubiquitous and relatively instantaneous communication to mass audiences of diverse nature, geo-political circumstances and social conditioning.
I have no religion, indeed I consider religions to be and to have been a major cause of divisiveness, conflict, repression and cruelty by groups of human beings, one against the other. If humanity is ever likely to live in real peace and harmony then, in my view, it will have to first overcome and give away the practice and insanity of organised religion and those who control it.
Having said that, however, I am just one speck of humanity who because of military experience in the Middle East and realisation that all human beings are fallible, susceptible to conditioning and indoctrination, generally seek to 'fit in' with the norms of the group which surrounds them and predominantly have either little intellectual capacity and/or fare too busy surviving as well as lacking the skills to inform themselves well, discern fact from half-truths and lies or even recognise and access reliable information, analysis and argument.
So, I do not consider it appropriate to stereotype or judge all on the basis of some or to treat complex issues with several layers of cause and effect, on the basis of their symptoms or, if you will, surface appearance through actions and events.
It may be that I have it wrong. I accept that. However, I have at least taken much trouble and made signficant effort to understand the geo-political conditions of the Middle East and the factors leading to the partitioning of Palestine and the creation of the State of Israel, including the deceitful perfidy of the British government of the day and its despicable cheating of the Arabs who facilitated its defeat of the Ottomans. It is that reading and basic research, I suggest, that provides some credibility for my views.
I also recognise that there is a ubiquitous tendency of human beings to focus on symptoms rather than causes and to 'blame' rather than understand and to penalise rather than correct or change what actually caused a particular issue.
I have generally found your comments to be sensible and to have merit. As I said earlier, I feel that I recognise the feelings that caused you to make the one to which I'm responding but I feel that I must because of the difficulty I have with it and because I don't think it is a well considered comment.
No, gypsy, not offended. Just sharing my view. I value what you have to say and cannot recall anything you’ve written with which I didn’t have at least fundamental agreement.
I didn’t mean any offence with my comment on language - my views there are a result of my own passion, not only for sound viewpoints but for the way in which it is expressed. However, I accept that such can be interpreted as snobbery or elitism or patronising or some such. It isn’t meant to be but is more a failing of mine resulting for that passion I have for oratory and great writing.
I grew up, unfortunately perhaps, in a city slum and am well capable of descending into gutter utterances of the worst kind - no that I am suggesting your words are of such a level.
I’m also very much aware that we are all heavily influenced by our conditioning and that some find it harder than others to overcome it. That does not make them ‘right’, of course, but is perhaps a mitigating factor. However I also accept that perhaps there can be no mitigation for supporting or advocating genocide.
I sincerely will that we can remain online ‘friends’ and share our views for I do respect yours.
Dear Zionist: "further, there is a stark and clear admission here of Zionists being '=Nazi'. Mincing and parsing out history and fact, and morals, is only embracing Ignorance as a way of life."
Ultimately it is self-defeating, delegitimising the very real and horrific events of not just Nazism but every pogrom that went before. Just like everyone else Israel is being attacked from the inside, but pivoting on the Holocaust is particularly cheap politics
For the sane people on planet earth, how can GENOCIDE JUSTIFY GENOCIDE?
How can the deaths of Jews in WWII, many out of tens of millions who died in genocidal slaughter, justify a genocide by Jews against Christians and Muslims for 76 years and worse in the past 18 months. HOW DOES THAT WORK?
Unless the policy really is that only the deaths of Jews count.
This is a great article. Thank you. You have expressed the problem with IHRA and weaponing the tragedy of the holocaust better than what is available to us so far.
Ron Unz "disbelief in the Holocaust was particularly strong among high-ranking American military figures, especially top generals and individuals with an Intelligence background, who would have had the best knowledge of the true events"
No, there is *no doubt* that the Holocaust took place. Such a notion contradicts all evidence including the testimony of those who experienced it. To suggest this is typical of disinformation and attempts to distort historical reality, for whatever reason.
Yes, with your usual articulate clarity you expose this fraud and deception for what it is. Oh that world 'leaders' would do the same and actually come together to take action to end the genocide being committed by Netanyahu.
Sadly, it seems that fascist ideology is once more rearing its monstrous head in the Western World and dissemination of its propaganda being even more powerful than that of Goebbels, so encouraging a dangerous, even insane, populism that may well result in yet another World War.
It seems that only South Africa has learned from the horrors of its past and is prepared to stand for respect and dignity of all. The pragmatic hypocrisy of most nations in regard to Israeli crimes is complicity in the inhumanity being perpetrated by a Zionist state, protected, funded and armed by the United States of America which, to its shame, appears to have learned nothing from its own history.
Thank you Roger...the Zionists and Israel’s abuse of the memories of the Holocaust and those who suffered and died, should also be seen as a war crime. Why? Because they are killing the very essence of what they were slaughtered for - their race, freedom and humanity.
Again, you are so right. If I were not witnessing it, I would find it incredible that what is perceived as a Jewish state, is committing crimes most definitely of the same character as those of the National Socialists and that, it seems, many if not a majority of Israeli citizens support Netanyahu's genocidal activity.
I am not surprised that none-Jews do not recognise what has always been a travesty and deception - that Israel is and always has been a Zionist, not a Jewish state. Indeed, when Palestine was partitioned it was a Zionist lobby that influenced the actions of the British government. However, that so many Jews appear also to have accepted this deceit is a tragedy which subverts the legitimate horror at Jewish suffering in Europe during the 1930s and 1940s, as well as the compassion and sympathy felt for those people by non-Jews across the World.
Indeed, at least in my view, it is that sympathy and feeling of good people from diverse religions, populations, nations and backgrounds that is also being perverted and, not least, because it apparently suits politicians, for whatever nefarious or perhaps simply unintelligent reason, to conflate the Zionist and the Jew and hence fund, arm and support Netanyahu and IDF atrocities.
Ironically, the major concern of probably most of the Israeli population is for the return of the hostages taken by Hamas. I say 'ironically' because the Palestinian people have effectively been held hostage ever since the deceitful perfidy of the British who failed to honour agreements with them to gain their assistance in defeating the Ottomans.
There is much more I could write but this is supposed to be a comment. The particular point I wish to make is that as far as I can tell, the average member of populations of western nations has little or no knowledge or awareness of how Israel came about or what has transpired since that time and the original displacement of 750,000 Palestinians when the State of Israel was created.
So, I'll say no more here but for those who are interested or wish to be informed rather than indoctrinated, deceived or misled, what follows are just a few reliable sources of information that reveals the perfidy that led to 7 October 2023 and the excuse it gave for Israel to pursue its long held will to eliminate the Palestinian people.
Before you criticise me, those who would or will - please note that I am *not* anti-semitic and that this conflict is not about religion or Jews, as I have made fairly clear above.
https://www.vox.com/world-politics/23921529/israel-palestine-timeline-gaza-hamas-war-conflict
https://www.thinkglobalhealth.org/article/gazas-food-crisis-began-long-israel-hamas-conflict
https://upaconnect.org/what-israel-banned-in-gaza-before-october-7/
https://www.btselem.org/topic/freedom_of_movement
https://www.ijvcanada.org/in-the-week-before-october-7-2023-ijv-factsheet/
https://www.btselem.org/topic/freedom_of_movement
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/education/2024/03/understanding-the-long-roots-of-violence-in-the-occupied-palestinian-territories-and-israel/
https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/2023/11/24/countdown-to-genocide/
https://palestine.unwomen.org/en/what-we-do/peace-security-humanitarian-response/facts-and-figures/conflict-in-palestine
https://www.britannica.com/place/West-Bank
https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/tamara-nassar/smotrich-speeds-land-theft-west-bank
https://www.un.org/unispal/document/unctad-report-10sep24/
Hi Roger
According to Max Blumenthal, 60% of IsraHellis don’t believe the IGF is doing ENOUGH to eradicate Palestinians.
According a Jimmy Dore, quoting a Pew poll, 74% of Amerikkkan Jews support IsraHell’s genocide.
These statistics do NOT inspire me to love/respect most Jews. Does that make me antisemitic? I really don’t give a tinker’s goddamn.
I believe that I understand what prompts your feelings but I do have difficulty in accepting the conclusions which they have caused you to draw.
I haven't seen the poll, know nothing of its methodology or reliability, (though I generally see PEW as reliable), and have no knowledge of Jimmy Dore. Despite that, on the basis of what I've read, I have no real difficulty in believing that those figures are probably correct or close to it. Indeed, as I indicated in my comment, it appalls me that the majority of the Israeli population apparently support the genocidal actions of Netanyahu and his war cabinet.
My difficulty with what you've said comes from two things. The first is the use of language distortion that is suggestive of relationship with or similarity to other times, places and events. Even if those factors are accurate, there is ample adequacy in our language to make those points clearly and directly, rather than with crude and derogatory alterations to vocabulary. - However, that is the lesser of my issues.
The second and more important difficulty I have is with the conflation of Jewish belief with Zionism. Again, this is a point I raised in my comment. There may well be some 'Jews' who are Zionists but as Zionism is an atheistic movement, then those Jews are not true Jews but simply Zionists.
So, no, those statistics do not make you antisemitic because the assumption underlying them is false. It views Zionist attitudes and belief as being a characteristic of those of the Jewish faith, which in my view is untrue. It is also one of the factors which contributes to antisemitism - a state of mind that is divisive, destructive, harmful and unintelligent. It amounts to disinformation which is doing so much damage to society in this era of ubiquitous and relatively instantaneous communication to mass audiences of diverse nature, geo-political circumstances and social conditioning.
I have no religion, indeed I consider religions to be and to have been a major cause of divisiveness, conflict, repression and cruelty by groups of human beings, one against the other. If humanity is ever likely to live in real peace and harmony then, in my view, it will have to first overcome and give away the practice and insanity of organised religion and those who control it.
Having said that, however, I am just one speck of humanity who because of military experience in the Middle East and realisation that all human beings are fallible, susceptible to conditioning and indoctrination, generally seek to 'fit in' with the norms of the group which surrounds them and predominantly have either little intellectual capacity and/or fare too busy surviving as well as lacking the skills to inform themselves well, discern fact from half-truths and lies or even recognise and access reliable information, analysis and argument.
So, I do not consider it appropriate to stereotype or judge all on the basis of some or to treat complex issues with several layers of cause and effect, on the basis of their symptoms or, if you will, surface appearance through actions and events.
It may be that I have it wrong. I accept that. However, I have at least taken much trouble and made signficant effort to understand the geo-political conditions of the Middle East and the factors leading to the partitioning of Palestine and the creation of the State of Israel, including the deceitful perfidy of the British government of the day and its despicable cheating of the Arabs who facilitated its defeat of the Ottomans. It is that reading and basic research, I suggest, that provides some credibility for my views.
I also recognise that there is a ubiquitous tendency of human beings to focus on symptoms rather than causes and to 'blame' rather than understand and to penalise rather than correct or change what actually caused a particular issue.
I have generally found your comments to be sensible and to have merit. As I said earlier, I feel that I recognise the feelings that caused you to make the one to which I'm responding but I feel that I must because of the difficulty I have with it and because I don't think it is a well considered comment.
Take care. Stay safe. ☮️
That was quite the tome, Roger. I appreciate the time it took you to write it.
Jimmy Dore is a politically-inspired comedian who.is virulently pro-Palestinian. You can check him out on YouTube.
I speak cowgirl. Please deal with it.
If MOST Amerikkkan Jews are pro-genocide, that gives me every right to dislike MOST Amerikkkan Jews. If that offends you it can’t be helped.
No, gypsy, not offended. Just sharing my view. I value what you have to say and cannot recall anything you’ve written with which I didn’t have at least fundamental agreement.
I didn’t mean any offence with my comment on language - my views there are a result of my own passion, not only for sound viewpoints but for the way in which it is expressed. However, I accept that such can be interpreted as snobbery or elitism or patronising or some such. It isn’t meant to be but is more a failing of mine resulting for that passion I have for oratory and great writing.
I grew up, unfortunately perhaps, in a city slum and am well capable of descending into gutter utterances of the worst kind - no that I am suggesting your words are of such a level.
I’m also very much aware that we are all heavily influenced by our conditioning and that some find it harder than others to overcome it. That does not make them ‘right’, of course, but is perhaps a mitigating factor. However I also accept that perhaps there can be no mitigation for supporting or advocating genocide.
I sincerely will that we can remain online ‘friends’ and share our views for I do respect yours.
Take care. Stay safe. ☮️
I normally read on my email, just came by to say great piece, as always. Hope you had a great Easter and have a pleasant wait in line to vote.
Many cheers. sw
Thank you SW for your kind words and support.
Brilliant article. It seems one cannot even question Israel’s actions without being labelled as a Jew hater. Honestly? It’s getting a bit tiresome. 🙄
Dear Zionist: "further, there is a stark and clear admission here of Zionists being '=Nazi'. Mincing and parsing out history and fact, and morals, is only embracing Ignorance as a way of life."
https://open.substack.com/pub/griobhtha1/p/dear-zionist
Excellent article! I have passed it on to my Pax Christi working group.
Thank you Mary.
100%!
Here's a tip for you - I can do this all day and I'll just ramp it up each time. Fuck nuckle!!
lol. Not as much as your mother and father seemed to have fucked you on multiple occasions. xxx
Won't be as bad as yours pig fucker!!
Ultimately it is self-defeating, delegitimising the very real and horrific events of not just Nazism but every pogrom that went before. Just like everyone else Israel is being attacked from the inside, but pivoting on the Holocaust is particularly cheap politics
Make believe genocide.
fuck off you murdering zionist scumbag pig
Oh I forgot…you can kindly go fuck yourself at any time.
Having a bad day Georgie?
For the sane people on planet earth, how can GENOCIDE JUSTIFY GENOCIDE?
How can the deaths of Jews in WWII, many out of tens of millions who died in genocidal slaughter, justify a genocide by Jews against Christians and Muslims for 76 years and worse in the past 18 months. HOW DOES THAT WORK?
Unless the policy really is that only the deaths of Jews count.
They can all go to Hell with their holocaustism.
Ironically and tragically, Israel has made antisemitism into its raisin d’etre.
This is a great article. Thank you. You have expressed the problem with IHRA and weaponing the tragedy of the holocaust better than what is available to us so far.
Of 'The Genocide' there is no doubt
Of 'The Holocaust' there is
Ron Unz "disbelief in the Holocaust was particularly strong among high-ranking American military figures, especially top generals and individuals with an Intelligence background, who would have had the best knowledge of the true events"
https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/
No, there is *no doubt* that the Holocaust took place. Such a notion contradicts all evidence including the testimony of those who experienced it. To suggest this is typical of disinformation and attempts to distort historical reality, for whatever reason.