39 Comments
User's avatar
George Hazim's avatar

Some historians need to come to terms with the phrase "if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck and looks like a duck" then it has to be a duck!! Who gives a fuck what some historians think. Just because you're a surgeon doesn't make you a surgeon. Not all historians are born equal.

Expand full comment
charles leone's avatar

That is why people like Tognini are sometimes referred to as presstitutes who will say or do anything for money.

Expand full comment
F....'s avatar

Except for telling the truth.

Nothing makes someone understand something like when they know that a wrong answer to a question will have a negative effect on the next paycheck...and long term career prospects.

Expand full comment
Roslyn Ross's avatar

The Israeli lies get more and more stupid.

So, if such a crime were to be proven by independent investigators since nothing the Israelis say could be trusted, how would that compare to the well documented atrocities committed by Israeli snipers of shooting children, including toddlers, in the head and heart?

Anyone who thinks the remains of two small bodies, after 15 months, who were killed by Israeli bombs which suffocated them and/or, tore their bodies apart, would retain such evidence is truly gullible.

And if it did, how could anyone know whether or not the mother in total trauma decided to save her little ones from a worse fate, ripped apart by Israeli bombs?

Given the fact that the Palestinian Resistance/Hamas, said in November 23 they had all been killed by Israeli bombs, why in the name of sanity would they, since hostages, living ones, have value, have strangled two little kids?

This whole thing smacks of more Israeli excuses to murder more Palestinians, nearly half of them children, as it did when it invented beheaded babies, microwaved babies and babies hung on lines, all utterly debunked long ago.

Expand full comment
Baz's avatar

They need to continue to show the world that their destruction of Gaza and the slaughter of it’s people is righteous (in pursuit of ‘human animals’) and are eager to ‘finish the job’ but as they run out of any justification for what they have done their narrative becomes evermore delusional and unhinged. That the MSM is still on board with the project tells us a lot.

Expand full comment
Roslyn Ross's avatar

This comment on the Times of Israel is worth sharing bigtime.

https://www.facebook.com/shane.clayworth?comment_id=Y29tbWVudDo5NDYzNzU2NDc2NDQ4OTVfNjAxMjc3MDI5NTcxNzI5&__cft__[0]=AZVeusaFt-8RZIRZEaE7FOra2zsB8nvoeq4sYsIrsaI61WQbLst7_5kS5Umon4uS4AXiUgDmj4ilqBtUedExZSdfzdGKW7WIPwKeEXOY--XzW_qpB9MCl3NmrCoit0W_2oRzZl_Ct968e-umtqzYng9AQ7WtWTTAedygQctlSRhawx8V6rJa9ohw1TRHRzS4zQI&__tn__=R-R

Mrs. Bibas and her two children were held in a set of apartment blocks in Gaza by the Mujahideen, who captured them. They were never held by Hamas. The father was captured separately and held elsewhere.

After overrunning the Mujahideen forces in Khan Younis in November 2023, and bombing the entire area, the IDF obtained street CCTV footage of Mrs. Bibas and her two children arriving in Khan Younis hours after the initial October 7 incursion. Mrs. Bibas, her two children, Gazan guards, and other civilians were killed in these strikes against the Mujahideen by Israeli forces in early November 2023.

Hamas officially informed Israel that Mrs. Bibas and her two children were killed in an Israeli airstrike, along with guards and several others. Hamas offered to return the bodies of Mrs. Bibas and her children and also offered to release Mr. Bibas during the initial “pause” in hostilities period in November/December 2023. This was presented as a humanitarian gesture so Mr. Bibas could bury his young family.

The saddest part is that Mrs. Bibas and her two children would have been released at the start of this initial pause, along with 50 other Israeli women and minors. But Israel had already killed them earlier that month in an airstrike against Mujahideen forces. Israel flatly refused Hamas’ humanitarian offer. Why? Because Netanyahu wanted no part in dead Israeli hostages—especially a young woman and her two children—being on the news with a very plausible story of how they died at a time when pressure on him was mounting quickly. The death of a young woman and two children, with a credible story about being killed in an Israeli strike, would have been a savage blow for Netanyahu, his government, and the IDF.

Netanyahu also wanted to resume bombing as soon as possible to satiate his own war cabinet’s and the public’s increasing bloodlust. Most importantly, a mother and her young children provided a strong propaganda image against Hamas; for Netanyahu, they needed to remain “alive” in Gaza—and in Israeli and global consciousness—as brutally held hostages suffering all sorts of imagined indignities. And that is exactly how Israel used them.

Rarely does anyone stop to think: why would this mother and her young children be withheld from a prisoner exchange involving women and children? What made them special? What reason could Hamas or the Mujahideen have for doing this? None. It was simply because they were already dead—killed in an Israeli airstrike. If they were brutally murdered by the Mujahideen or Hamas as Israel now claims after receiving their bodies, why would Hamas have offered to return their bodies with a “story” about an airstrike? Their recent deaths would have made forensic investigation much more revealing had Israel accepted them back by November 2023. It makes no sense—none at all.

In fact, later on in this piece, you’ll find that Israel openly admitted they were killed “no later than November 2023.” The real story was buried by Israel and replaced with this heinous narrative. The whole world was duped (well, not quite the whole world). This was about protecting Israel’s and Netanyahu’s image. This is the epitome of pure evil. Think about it for a moment: a mother and her two children blown apart by an Israeli airstrike only to be grossly exploited after their deaths by the very people who killed them.

By refusing to accept them back—along with Mr. Bibas so he could bury his family—Israel exploited them further by using them as propaganda tools to pull on public heartstrings. I’m almost throwing up writing this. This is depravity beyond words: the story twisted, hidden, then used as propaganda for 18 months.

When Israel finally accepted the Bibas family’s remains, their propaganda machine kicked into overdrive for its next disgusting phase—and they will keep exploiting them for as long as it’s useful. This is Israel, folks—this is who they REALLY are away from the lights and screens, lies, spin, propaganda, money, and influence. It is simply subhuman behavior. They then ascribe all these heinous qualities to Hamas—which are simply untrue.

Regarding Mrs. Bibas’ body: I can only surmise what happened here. One thing seems certain: Hamas unintentionally sent the wrong remains due to one—the time lapse since their deaths in November 2023—and two—the possible state of her remains after being literally blown up. It’s entirely possible other remains were mixed with hers; we’re talking about a war zone with fluid dynamics.

Think about it: what possible reason would Hamas have to purposely send the wrong remains? They would certainly know that full DNA tests would be carried out immediately. What do they have to gain? They’d know Israel would use it against them in every way possible while claiming Hamas did it because “they’re sick subhuman animals.” It makes zero sense.

Coupled with this is Hamas’ moral compass regarding treating the dead with respect—a stark contrast to how Israel returned Palestinian bodies dumped off trucks in plastic bags. How societies treat their dead—friend or foe—is illustrative of their morality.

The other real possibility is that Israel is lying again—it’s commonplace for Israel to lie incessantly; that’s obvious to most people by now. It’s entirely possible they’re milking their propaganda machine at the expense of the Bibas family—who are simply instruments for Israel’s use.

Additionally, Israeli military spokesman Daniel Hagari stated yesterday (February 21, 2025) that the children were killed “no later than November 2023.” Given the nature of their bodies, Israel had no choice but to admit this—but they knew it all along since December 2023 when Hamas told them plainly what had happened. The timing didn’t suit Israel’s heinous agenda back then—it’s beyond sickening.

Hagari also claimed they were murdered “in cold blood” without providing further information but said forensic experts worldwide are verifying it (of course they are). It’s all so sad—so transparently pathetic—and pure propaganda.

I wonder what Mrs. Bibas and her two children think now if they could reflect on their lives here: how it ended; how they were exploited so grossly by their own country—the one they likely cherished most deeply—a monumental betrayal beyond words.

They now know the whole truth—and I feel for them deeply but not for reasons most people might imagine.

Surely, the Mujahideen aren’t blameless—they captured Mrs Bibas based on intelligence linking her to Israel’s Unit 8200—but she and her children would’ve been home within weeks during prisoner exchanges involving Palestinian women and children held under barbaric conditions by Israel.

I’m not saying Hamas or Gazans are innocent or honorable in all actions—but their integrity often far surpasses anything Israel comprehends or applies today—or has since 1948.

I question what others might have done had they been born in Gaza; in such an oppressive, suffocating, poverty stricken, violent, and simply unfair situation; and against a morally bereft oppressor. I am guessing I would have eventually taken up arms and used force against my oppressor; any self respecting person would.

Many I imagine will be seething at these comments. Such is life; each of us can only be where we are at.

Peel back the propaganda, the lies, the spin, the deceit — and you’ll see truth emerge starkly.

I've said it many times; Israel is pretty much devoid of three monumental qualities; morality, integrity and honour; and it largely has been since 1948. Today it is at its extreme.

Expand full comment
Kathleen Grover's avatar

Roslyn, thank you for such a thoughtful and well documented article. I was struck by your thoughts on being born in Gaza and your possible response. I’ve always considered myself a nonviolent person, respectful of the lives of others including animals. I shocked myself 20 years ago when, while reading a report of some Israeli atrocities against a woman’s family, I found myself thinking I’d strap on a suicide vest in her place. I never imagined I’d ever have such a thought. I then wondered how the Palestinians had continued with nonviolent protests in spite of the Israeli response, often with live fire. I had an argument with a professor at a small local college when he complained that the Palestinians would better serve their cause with nonviolence. He did what most in the west did and focused on the handful of violent actions rather than the majority of nonviolent actions. In my opinion nonviolence only works when it’s reported by the press and causes a reaction outside of the conflict. That pressure brought to bear by shining a light on the oppressors is what brings about change, not simply a nonviolent protest in isolation. Israel will happily shoot nonviolent protesters and will never change without outside pressure which is nonexistent in western press and western governments.

Expand full comment
Roslyn Ross's avatar

Israel has demonstrated that resisting with violence, resisting with non-violence or not resisting at all makes not a whit of difference and they plan to kill you anyway. Why would not more and more Palestinians resort to Israeli terrorist tactics and fight with all the violence they can muster.

Non-violent resistance only works if your oppressor has some integrity and principles. Israel has neither.

Expand full comment
Baz's avatar

Well said Roslyn, great arguments there clearly stated but unfortunately as we all can see there is an entrenched “You are either OK with killing all ‘terrorists’ at any cost or you are a terrorist sympathiser” at work here.

I can say without hesitation that I am glad I am not Israeli, living in a state that is prepared to kill its own people for some strategic advantage (Hannibal Directive) against the resistance its own colonialism has fomented. That is a very sad place indeed.

Expand full comment
Roslyn Ross's avatar

Well if the Palestinian Resistance are terrorists then so were the French and Polish Resistance, and the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto.

Expand full comment
Baz's avatar
Feb 23Edited

Brings to mind that hero of genocidal American colonialism, in 1876 lieutenant colonel George Custer said:

“If I were an Indian, I would follow Crazy Horse rather than adhere to the confines of the reservation”

Expand full comment
Roslyn Ross's avatar

Well, Custer was an instrument of the military machine which employed him. The US was not founded on a policy of genocide although there were certainly genocidal events in the 19th century as the resistance by Indian tribes increased to significant levels.

It needs to be remembered that there was plenty of genocidal intent and circumstance between Indian tribes before the Europeans arrived and after although necessity did bring some unity at times.

Expand full comment
gypsy33's avatar

Not to Mention Nat Turner.

Or John Brown.

Or Crazy Horse.

Or Sitting Bull.

Or Tecumseh.

Or………..

Expand full comment
Kathleen Grover's avatar

I recently watched Anthony Lowenstein’s 2 part series on Al Jazeera about Israel’s security industry and its implications for Palestinians as well as the world. Watching the first part which deals with the overwhelming invasion of Palestinians lives in the West Bank I was genuinely shocked at the layers of surveillance they’re subjected to. I don’t know how they can bear the life imposed on them by Israel. At the same time I was struck by what this must do to the Israeli psyche, what they are aware of. I can’t imagine living in a place where I felt so constantly threatened, believing that my life depended on walls, machine gun turrets, armed and surveillance drones, and a level of surveillance of the “others” that I never dreamed existed. I’ve always noticed that walls may keep people out but they also imprison those within. Israelis seem to live with a fortress mentality, only safe within their walls, all those outside posing an imminent threat. That near constant state of anxiety must be exhausting. Realizing on 10/7 that all the walls, magic fences, and 24 hour surveillance which had given them such a sense of security wasn’t impregnable seems to have driven them mad. They are no longer safe, no longer able to ignore those imprisoned next to them, so they have chosen genocide as a means to regain their safety. They will sanction anything no matter how heinous if it results in their safety. It’s no wonder they are such a bloodthirsty people. Even if they were to murder every Palestinian they would still feel threatened, just by new enemies. As long as they see enemies everywhere and never seek just resolutions they will remain insecure.

Expand full comment
Baz's avatar

This ‘madness’ is the prerequisite to genocide, so here we are.

Expand full comment
Roslyn Ross's avatar

Eloquently put and tragically true. Israeli culture, society, State and most individuals are severely mentally ill and that is why they are incapable of helping themselves and will have to be forced to dismantle their State and learn to live as human beings in a shared world.

To be fair to Israelis, they could never have done the evil that they have nor become the even worse evil that they are today without being enabled, supported, funded, armed and cheered on by too many Jews and too many Governments around the world. They have morphed into such an atrocity because no-one has ever stopped them or called them to account. Now it is too late. Their State, culture, society must be completely dismantled.

They are too psychopathic to ever be able to live in peace with anyone in Palestine or the Middle East. There are perhaps some exceptions but they are a tiny minority.

Expand full comment
Feral Finster's avatar

Am I truly the only cat who remembers The Great Iraqi Baby Incubator Saga?

A conscious lie from beginning to end, but it got the results intended for it. The neocons got the war they so craved.

Not only that, but humans fall for the lies and atrocity porn, over and over again.

Expand full comment
gypsy33's avatar

I recall it clearly, Feral.

Turned out that the “nurse” who reported it was a member of the Kuwaiti royal family.

Expand full comment
Feral Finster's avatar

Which the MSM so breathlessly reporting this hoax knew fell well at the time.

Expand full comment
Gogs's avatar

Of course, the MSM didn't say anything about what seemed to me the remarkably good shape of hostages previously released, all things considered. Nor that the IDF were doing their diabolical utmost to destroy tunnels, never mind the possibility that Israeli hostages were there. The general public are also still in the the dark about the Hannibal directive, because the MSM have no intention of reporting what actually happened, only pushing their racist pro -Zionist line.

Expand full comment
Zippy's avatar

Speaking of Gibson's in general and Mel Gibson in particular please check out an essay titled Critical Reflections on Mel Gibson's the Passion of Christ by Rhonda Hammer and Douglas Kellner.

It is featured via the UCLA School of Education & Information website.

The applied politics of cruelty is now being dramatized by the usual suspects!

Expand full comment
Majid Khoury's avatar

This is how most of the news is in the same realm of miscarriage of the truth that we will not know until it’s too late …. Yet. They will get away with this and they don’t care this is how democracy will die

Expand full comment
Sam's avatar

She's one disgusting person.

Expand full comment
Baz's avatar

….and the prize for Zionism’s supporting actress goes to…

Expand full comment
Diane Engelhardt's avatar

This Bibas story is a Zionist propagandist's gold mine? How much does this women get paid to embellish, embroider and milk it?

Expand full comment
Alec's avatar

@gemma Tognini “I was a first-time visitor to Israel, and as a Christian” without any moral principals and driven by greed….

https://www.australianjewishnews.com/two-different-visits-to-israel/

Expand full comment
gypsy33's avatar

Just took a reluctant look at the link, Alec, and I’ve never read anything more convoluted and nonsensical in my life.

And she’s ugly, too!

Expand full comment
gypsy33's avatar

George, tell me where this Tognini cunt lives and I’ll kneecap her.

Got my Louisville Slugger in hand as we speak.

Expand full comment
F....'s avatar

While I'm not familiar with the work of Tognini and I haven't read the piece I have to ask the question.. if she simply placed her name below something that was ghostwritten?

Expand full comment
Roslyn Ross's avatar

I previously took apart a piece the Shitstralian published by Tognini and suspect it and this came fully formed from the Zioraeli hasbara machine. Stupid her for allowing it to be published in her name.

Expand full comment
F....'s avatar

The only way to be sure is to question her knowledge on this but lets not rule out the ghostwriters.

Expand full comment
Union Forward's avatar

Those who support the Palestinian genocide in the Holy Land are simply DEMONIC:

http://undergod.love/RosaryPrayerforPalestine.htm

Here is your 'ISIS' and others:

citizensamericaparty.org/ISIS.htm

Expand full comment